posted 01-17-2003 05:14 AM              

So what MATERIAL would you use then?

Forging is a process.

posted 01-18-2003 09:36 PM              

Check the internet for listings of knife blank suppliers, they'll have something your size.

Also, read a book on knife forging etc... So you can learn how to harden the head.

posted 01-19-2003 03:26 AM              

Anyway, yeh CNC would seem a good choice.
Even though i said discount cost, processing and weight, CNC'ing would create a lot of waste. The other idea was laser cutting. But if it were semi mass produced then it may not be viable.

Anyway, still no-one has answered my initial question! What metal/alloy would be most suitable for an ice axe (not a pick axe).

posted 01-20-2003 04:51 AM              

Jesus: you answered my prayers. thankyou

stainless steel investement cast with secondary processing to make it tool grade steel.

posted 01-20-2003 03:47 PM              

"tool steel" (like dies, punches, etc are made from) contains quite a bit of iron, hich of course rusts...

posted 01-20-2003 04:09 PM              

Would i be right saying tool grade would come in tool grade, whereas tool steel would require the seperate treatment?

I always thought it was the same.

I guess then that tool steel will only be tool steel on the outer few mm o the tool? rather than right through?

posted 01-20-2003 04:21 PM              

it says:

Hammerhead - Investment Cast 17-4 PH Stainless Steel. Heat Treated to HRC 40 Adze - High Carbon, Tool Grade Steel, Austempered to HRC 44

So, i was right then (?) stainless steel processed to tool grade (stainless steel).

you've confused me now! so, technically your saying there is :

tool grade
and tool steel

posted 01-20-2003 09:59 PM              

and that IS what it says; stain-less (not stain free).

posted 01-21-2003 03:38 AM              

My source for tool grade, is well, me. I can vauguely remember a conversation at uni, saying something along the lines of tool grade is harder to machine, thus it would increase cost, production time,etc. thats a totally other story!

anyways,
tool grade
amd tool grade steel

are the same things too me.

check a few posts up and there's the excerpt from the ice axe link you gave me. it says:

'Stainless Steel. Heat Treated to HRC 40 Adze - High Carbon, Tool Grade Steel, Austempered to HRC 44'

ie so it IS 'tool grade' stainless steel

so, you are saying that tool steel is the same as above but it isnt stainless.

if so thats cool, i've understood that from the beginning.

this is getting a bit much!

to steels
1. tool grade stainless steel (or just steel)
2. tool steel (which isn't stainless), and therefore is the same as tool grade steel

posted 01-21-2003 06:34 AM              

Tool grade steel (stainless or otherwise) has a secondary treatment to harden it.

whereas

tool steel requires no hardening. its commonly used in die, mould making, etc

posted 01-24-2003 02:13 PM              

a bridges/structural
maybe civil
eletrical
mechanical
development
materials
chemical
software
sales enginner.....

i'm a product designer, as are probably the rest of the guys (ID, PD, arch. same line of work, etc, etc).

posted 01-24-2003 03:04 PM              

 
Salt Lake City, UT--A high-strength alloy designed for aerospace has reached another lofty peak. The space-age material now makes it safer and easier for ice climbers to scale some of the world's highest and most defiant mountains.

For the high-end climber, Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. developed what it claims to be the ultimate ice pick--a "stinger" pick made from a special double-vacuum-melted alloy that combines high tensile and shear strength, high fracture toughness, and fatigue resistance.

The original pick, with a well-designed, compound-curved shaft, was made of 4340 chrome moly steel. However, it was prone to breakage and point wear, particularly when the climber hit or smashed the point on rock under the ice veneer.

"Some climbers would go through five or six picks a season," recalls Ken Stone, Black Diamond materials engineer. "Prior to eventual replacement, they had to file points to restore their sharpness, until they were no longer serviceable."

Then Black Diamond turned to AerMet(TM) alloy supplied by Carpenter Technology Corp. (Reading, PA). Developed as a candidate for the landing gear of U.S. Navy carrier jet fighters, the alloy combines properties also found useful in many commercial applications. When heat treated, it can attain typical tensile strength of 285 ksi (1,965 MPa), with fracture toughness in excess of 100 ksi (square root)inch (110 MPa (square root)m). Being air-hardenable, the alloy remains virtually free of thermal distortion. This is a bonus for anyone who makes parts with complex shapes or critical size tolerance, such as the ice pick.

Stone reports that the extra strength of the picks made from AerMet allows for a 20% thinner pick. This design improvement, in turn, allows the climber to make better penetration with less ice and rock displacement, achieving "superior hookability" in fissures.

The idea in ice climbing is to set the pick in the ice with the flick of a wrist, not a hammer swing, Stone explains. With minimum effort, using a strong but light pick, the climber wants to get deep, solid penetration, displacing as little ice as possible. Controlled, accurate tool placement--a function of tool design--maintains the climbing rhythm.

Stone adds that ice tools must function reliably in "mixed climbing," the big trend in a fast-growing sport. Climbers must use the tool, or ax (with the pick as the working member), to traverse over both ice and rock. The climber hooks on rock, then inserts the pick into fissures to swing or pull into a new position.

The newly designed stinger pick has become the preferred tool by the most experienced climbers, Stone notes, adding: "We're having a problem keeping up with demand for the new pick. Everyone in the field, including our technical reps, are providing nothing but favorable feedback. It seems that climbers, as a breed, are always looking for gear that is bombproof."

information about Aermer alloy is available at http://www.cartech.com/

posted 01-24-2003 03:11 PM              

anyway, i think the argument was between

tool grade steel

and

tool steel

had a look at the links, and there's too much to go through! Had alook at 5/6 then got bored. I did find out that tool stainless steel is commonly used for die's and tools.

You know the difference?

posted 01-25-2003 12:09 AM              

If anyone is stiil interested to answer the question: what is tool grade steel vs. tooling steel (following conventions in the U.S):
An alloy is a combination of two or more
metals i.e. Stanless Steel,Brass, Bronze

Tool garde steel is iron with addition of other materials that allow is to be worked,hardened and tempered. Typically trace amount of manganese, sulphur,phosporous and carbon. The grade of tool grade steel is designated by a four digit number which indicates the tool steel's properties. i.e. 1012, 4130

Tooling steels are alloys and tool grade steels used in the production of tooling i.e molds, dies, punches, cutters, drills
and taps. Tooling steels are usually designated by trade name, number
or alpha-numeric i.e. W 02, A2, H2
TiN, M2

posted 01-26-2003 03:16 PM              

the confusion, i believe, was in the use of the word 'grade'. there is no 'tool grade' steel, the term is simply: tool steel.

and by definition, ANY steel, 'stainless'(better termed corrosion resistant)or otherwise is an alloy. and as Mr. mister points out, the chemical composition determines what mechanical characteristics it possesses; which is termed: 'grade'

steel, 'stainless' steel, brass, bronze, and tin, are all alloys. aluminum is an element, but generally not structurally useful in other than an alloyed form.

posted 01-26-2003 03:41 PM              

so is: (excerpt from link at top of discussion)

'Stainless Steel. Heat Treated to HRC 40 Adze - High Carbon, Tool Grade Steel, Austempered to HRC 44'

wrong?!

posted 01-27-2003 01:17 PM              

THAT is what is confusing you.

it's called 'tool steel', not 'tool GRADE steel'... the chemical references, heat treatment notation, and so on, determine the grade of 'tool steel' that you will end up with.

consistent with advertising hype, their description is overly worded.