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Alno's Pull-Out Dining: How'd They Do That? (Or: How Would You Do This?)

By Rain Noe - May 13, 2013

in Furniture Design

This photo began making the blog rounds some time last year, and continues to resurface on Pinterest, usually with the word "clever" in the description. But is it? Let's think about this for a second.

First off there's the table. I wondered how they got such a big table into the counter - perhaps there is a fold in it? By zooming in on the photo, we can tick that box:

As you can see inside the circle, the faintest of reveals is visible, indicating the table's in two halves. My guess is the front half folds up and back onto the rear half for stowage. The two red arrows indicate where conventional leaf hinges (as seen below) might be, conveniently concealed in the photo by the dish and the newspaper.

However, as this piece of furniture is ascribed to German manufacturer Alno (though I could not find it anywhere on their site, probably due to the language barrier), I wouldn't be surprised if they used hidden hinges like this:

Those bad boys are inserted into simple holes drilled into the edges of each board, and then you join them like you're doweling them together. Hinges like that don't come cheap, maybe a hundred bucks U.S.Then there's the seating part. Sure, you can get 100-lb. capacity drawer slides, and with one on either side, could theoretically support your 200-lb. friend. But how are those drawer slides mounted? On your average Euro kitchen set-up, you've got tiny little screws biting into melamine-covered particle-board sides—something that would clearly end here with a very slapstick-like accident.

To our readers with design-build experience, how would you rig something like this if the client demanded it? In addition to using solid-wood or plywood sides that took screws well, my instinct would be to attach blocks above and below the drawer slides as added support—but the presence of a drawer directly above the seat drawer means that would interfere with the former's drawer slides. Any ideas? Do you reckon this whole thing is steel?

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Lauren Nicole

12 years ago

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It is a cute idea but not practicle.

I suggest having the seats do more than just pull straight out. Maybe there is a back support and feet support to make it look and feel more stable. It may be able to hold the weight of an average or an above average person but all I can see is the customer feeling wary the whole time sitting there. This is set assuming one inital weight and height of people. Some one could be very light but tall so their knees will not fit underneath.

It's cool to look at but not realistic. It would have to be customized to the individual and not be able to be mass produced.
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Ken J

12 years ago

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Designers are cute. :D

All the hardware needed is on McMaster at reasonable prices. Mortise hinges, HD slides, etc.

I'd splurge on 500lb rated slide pairs though as you want the seats to take dynamic loads of sitting (not just static weight) and give the user a confident feel.

From a design perspective, those corners would catch my thighs for sure and give a nasty charlie horse.
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James Patrick

12 years ago

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Shitty execution, but the concept is doable. As Blake mentioned, it would be easy to add legs that fold down out of the table and seats(each drawer only needs one leg). Using three or four legs, the seats could be made so that they are detachable from the cabinet. Also I would round off those corners.
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Scott

12 years ago

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Obvious render, and not an especially good one (see the unnatural folds on the newspaper, and the metallic two dimensional fakeness of all the stuff on the countertop). But there's no reason you couldn't build this with heavy duty slides. I just don't see why you'd want to. If your kitchen is too small to hold a 2 top table, you probably don't want to hang out there and drink a bottle of wine.
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Blake

12 years ago

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As a previous cabinetry designer, the seats would be easy, you just have to get some really hardcore slides designed for "Pull out Pantrys" like this one. they are rated at nearly 300 lbs each, so go for 2 on stabilitys front. (honestly anyone having this put in their home, money is no object). the fold up is neat, but i doubt it would be practical for long, the best alternative, is to ultilize a more narrow eating space. another interesting idea would be to place a magnetic latching leg to fold down when you pull the drawer out to make things flush, that could save some serious bucks on those crazy slide by allowing you to use KV 120s. ZI will agree that this is a rendering because the shadows look like some silly cabinet softwares craptastic light studio offered it. but this is a very real possibility, I have already come up with a few ways to make that happen myself.
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Jorgen

12 years ago

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These pull-out tables are very common in many kitchen systems, and do not use hinges. The outermost part of the table has wheels which run on tracks that forces the entire outermost part of the table underneath the innermost part when pushed in/pulled out. So, they are stacked on top of each other. In fact, the only limitation on length is the height of how many table parts you can stack on top of each other, and of course the increase in torque as you build further outwards, balanced by the strength of materials and anchoring against the wall.
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RJ

12 years ago

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Do a google image search looking for similar images and you'll find the exact same set-up and angle including newspaper and wineglasses but with different counters and wall treatments.
What I'm getting at is that this is a rendering...Albeit a good one.
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Scott W

12 years ago

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When I was detailing the installation of computer systems on submarines, we used drawer slides that would hold heavy military grade hardware in a rack and those systems had to withstand serious shock loads, these were slides that could cantilever hundreds of pounds and roll with ease. And they were held in with fairly minimal hardware.

The difference being these slides were usually being anchored to a steel chassis rack, itself able to withstand even more loads.

So if this system was anchored by any sort of steel chassis or even just some stout wood frame with some metal backing plates to resist pull-out I'm sure the slide-out chairs are well within physical possibility.

Cost and practicality run very counter the idea in most applications, but if we were talking a micro apartment, a boat (like a submarine) or similar, I could see the idea being applied.
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Product Tank

12 years ago

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Is this real? I mean actually in production? Unless the seat drawers lock each time you try to sit down you risk nudging them closed which is quite dangerous. Once seated you are in the way of opening any drawers and anything on the table renders opening the top drawer difficult, so lets hope you haven't forgotten to get anything you need out! The drawer fronts will catch your legs as you try to slide on to the seat, which won't be comfortable and the width of everything looks cramped so you'll be banging one elbow on the drawers each time you try to use your knife and fork. Any spillages will run off the table into the drawer below. It's ok, but I think there's plenty of room for improvement. PT
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JT

12 years ago

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I feel like this is simply just a table top utilizing two drawer slides and a removable surface.

The two drawer slides would provide enough support (generally up to 100 lbs for the pair) and allow you to slide the whole unit out. The front white surface could be removable rather than foldable. This would allow you to detach the surface and stack it onto the rear making it easier to slide the whole unit into the rest of the counter.

This is just my take from only looking at the provided pictures and a general knowledge of home hardware.
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dave

12 years ago

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the table is okay as an idea, personally I think the seats are silly.
I wouldn't attempt the double leaf design but I think they are proposing that the rear leaf rolls down the back of the unit as the front leaf slides back into it's drawer space. this obviously wastes a lot of the space below- look at the pics, do you see drawer fronts under there?
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Razvan

12 years ago

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from the photo it looks like the seat is too short, making pretty unconfortable to eat (especially for the person at the right side, and especially if taht person is right-handed). so it shoul extend farther away from the cabinet.
also, the gap between the table and the seat looks to small, and combined witht the side of the seat and table (that are pretty sharp, because they have to conceal when closed and look like the regular drawers) could make leaving the table kind of a not pleasant moment.
seats don't have back-rest! if this solution is not for actually having a nice dinner, why doing it and spending money then? for few stick and champain, you could use the cabint top itself. But if is a smart solution for a relaxing dinner, or breackfast, when you want to read the newspaper relaxed, you have to have the back rest.
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noam

12 years ago

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500 lbs are great but cost a lot [las time i saw them for 300+- us]
If you sacrifice the drawer below you could connect a large support to the wall and use that to take some of the load. that way you also save on a few sets of rails.
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db

12 years ago

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First, barrel hinges are about $10, not $100. Next, there are several types of hidden hinges for cabinetry, rockler.com has plenty to choose from.

Also, if it were hinged, the drawer front would actually hinge to the back. My guess is the back piece of the table is loose and just lies on the top piece and is moved like a table leaf when pulled out.

Drawer slides rated 500lb for the pair can also be purchased at rockler.com.
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AP

12 years ago

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+1 to J's comment on the price. Up here in Canada, Lee Valley Tools sells all manner of variations on the hidden hinge:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware/page.aspx?p=64335&cat=3,41241,41265

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware/page.aspx?p=62129&cat=3,41241

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J

12 years ago

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I was quite surprised about the price for the hidden hinges showed in the post. Didn't made a lot of sense as it wasn't more than a simple mechanism with machined and stamped metal -brass?- parts wich seemed perfect for mass production.
So I googled a little bit and found this retailer selling them for few bucks :)
http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/FURNITURE+HINGES/Concealed+Hinges+-+Hidden+Hinges/Concealed+Hinge%2C+Barrel+Type
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TJ

12 years ago

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The concept is nice, great for saving space. However, as shown a prerequisite for use is you must be legless, there doesn't appear to be room for you legs at the end of the drawer. My suggestion would be to pursue the concept and increase the feasibility along the way.
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rbt

12 years ago

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i doubt they are using hinges of any kind. folding consumes a lot of space in the actual process of folding.

i'd guess they simply stack both parts on top of each other. mechanisms like that have been around in European furniture business for centuries. literally all kitchen tables possessed by me or ma family had a somehow similar function.
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G

12 years ago

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The way I would do it... the seats have actually long sliders but not on the sides, actually bellow. These will go into a sort of inverted "lift fork" shaped metal structure going from the base up; this way the drawe bellow is useful.
Something similar for the table with those cool hinges
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Damang Sarumpaet

12 years ago

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I bet that this is a 3D rendered. The table is OK, but the seats...
1st, you have to maintain the balance of the couple who sit on it with the weight of whole counter, and for that purpose only you need to anchor the counter to the wall or the floor.
2nd, based on the image you can see that the seats are using conventional drawer rails, it just wont work, it will need extra support.
I think the designer need to include folded stands for the seat.
The idea is good though.
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Thijmen

12 years ago

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I once designed a movable, sort of fold out kitchen where I used high capacity drawer slides to accommodate work tops that would slide out of the volume. You'd be surprised how sturdy these things can be! The ones I used in that particular part of the design were two 100lbs fastened on birch side panels and these were strong enough to hold me if necessary.
A quick look in the catalogue of the german supplier of these fittings I learned that they offer drawer slides with capacities up to 500 lbs (/pair) which would be way to much even!
By examining the inner side at the table and the inner side at the drawer it looks like these sides are maybe up to 30-40 millimeters thick. That is a big upright member which I reckon to be strong enough to be able to endure the tension from the table and seats. The wood I used was only 12 mm thick and supported me quite well.
You mentioned a German supplier, the hinges you picture are not nearly as expensive there than they are in the USA (like 10 dollars or so).
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