Hand Tool School #6: If I Build This, Would I be Profiting From Someone Else's Design?

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  Craig Thibodeau

  3 years ago

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  If you're having these thoughts before even starting the project then it's likely you already know the answer.  Luckily for you all three of the designs you noted are from companies that still exist and can be contacted if you wanted to ask them for permission to do a class on building one of their pieces.  Of course the answer may be no.  And yes, it's obviously wrong to profit from someones work without getting their permission first.
  

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  Keith Bradley

  3 years ago

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  Two Points to think about:

  1) Copying the design and selling the furniture is bad.

  Inspired by is the best way to go here. You shouldn't measure the original piece. A technique used in design school is to look at the pieces you like the style of and sketch from that. The next day redraw your design without looking at any images or your previous sketches. Although your created piece is definitely in the style of the original, it won't be identical and you will develop your own solutions.

  2) There is nothing wrong with showing people how something is made.

  If something is simple enough to be created at home, requiring skill and no proprietary molds/forms/tools, it's ok to try and build it yourself. Would you not build a simple MDF bookcase because IKEA makes one? If you aren't selling your creation, there's really no problem. 

  
  

  You ask about selling the lesson, that's where I'm not sure. I don't think your lesson should be step by step on how to build someone else's design, but a "How To" for each method used seems perfectly acceptable. This is how I would make this joint. This is how I would cut at this angle. Your final result can be inspired by a design you like, but other people could use those techniques to create their own pieces.

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  Aaron Tuck

  3 years ago

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  I am an industrial designer working for a medium sized national furniture company in Australia. I have been asked by clients to copy other people's pieces and what I always say is "why do you like this piece? What is it about the chair/table that appeals to you?" After determining this, we can design something inspired by, say the angular rectilinear forms of the Yaffe Mays Sligo. The new design could capture some of the essence of the original while keeping your conscience clean and  giving the students something that won't be criticized as a rip off in their portfolio.

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  Laura Mays

  2 years ago

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  I am the designer and maker of the Sligo chair, one of the chairs discussed above. I myself am a teacher (at The Krenov School in northern California) and I very much understand the usefulness of learning through imitation, even through downright copying. Many of my students copy existing work as a means to learning. However, two points: 1) I urge the students in this situation to make every effort to at least ask the designer or manufacturer for permission, pointing out that they are making the copy for the purposes of education; and 2) that they don't profit in a material sense from the copy. The exercise was to learn, not to sell. If Renaissance Woodworker wishes to use the Sligo chair for teaching purposes, it would be polite, to say the least, to ask me. If they ask, I would say yes and be flattered. If they don't ask, I would be angry and consider it unethical.
  

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  Maureen Carroll

  3 years ago

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  I was not previously familiar with the original Irish chair type called the Sligo, but after googling images of the original, and looking at the Yaffe Mays Co. version, I was really impressed. Yaffe Mays does an absolutely beautiful interpretation of the chair type, reinventing it in a modern language. Let there be no doubt: copying it and publishing a "how to" for making it is not the sincerest form of flattery - it's really shady, and would reflect very poorly on you. You can contact Yaffe Mays and see if they would give you permission to do it, OR, you could look at the original Sligo chair and do your own unique reinterpretation, purposely striving to differentiate from the Yaffe Mays version. I'm not talking about simply copying it without "measuring" it as someone suggested, I'm talking about using different lines, proportions, support methods, etc.  That would be the best was to foster conversation, advance the woodworking profession, and take the high road while shedding light on a beautiful piece you found, without copying it. 

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  Christian van der Linden

  3 years ago

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  While there may be some gray area, the right to use portions of copyrighted materials without permission for purposes of education, commentary, or parody is normally considered "fair use".

  
  

  You might be in the clear as your purposes for education. You aren't selling reproductions of the intellectual property.

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    Christian van der Linden

    Christian van der Linden

    3 years ago

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    I would still reach out to the owners of the designs as a courtesy. Who knows, they could be enthusiastic about the marketing opportunity.

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  Matt Herrmann

  3 years ago

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  Maybe the safer bet would be to say "in <X> style" in the same way you would make a Missionary chest of drawers, Shaker coat rack, or an Arts and Crafts writing desk. No copyright infringement there, and people will draw whatever conclusions about your inspirations they want.
  

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  Sara Falcon

  3 years ago

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  If your site is to help people learn... Learning how to create a new design "in the style of" could be a great lesson to teach.  If you don't feel comfortable giving advice on this to your subscribers, maybe partner with another designer who can give meaningful tips or do s case study on the topic.  Could be really interesting for you as well.  

  
  

  SJ 

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  Jonas Eriksson

  3 years ago

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  Did you ask Yaffe Mays for permission to use their picture of the chair? If no then you violated the copy rights - if you/core77 and Yaffe Mays is in the same country or share the same law agreed between the different countries.

  
  

  Maybe you could picture yourself how would you react if someone copied your entire homepage, without asking you. You could be fine with it on a hobby level but what if the copied homepage make money and outshine yours?

  
  

  My point is that if you don't have permission then it will probably be troublesome in the future. You might be protected by country borders and internet anonymity for now but if it start to involve big money or hurt a large company, then its a matter of time when they come and ask for compensation.

  
  

  If you respect the designers work you should also respect their wish. They might say no if you ask them but you could always try to explain to them the PR-value to be mentioned on a blog as Core77 or your own for example. I didn't know of Yaffe Mays before, now I do thanks to you and Core77.

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  Noodle Time

  3 years ago

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  gray area indeed... very similar to music artists.  
  
  if you design a building, and i decide to take a picture, or paint a picture of it, and sell those pictures, are you entitled to some of the profit? 
  
  in my mind, in the subset of hand workings, it is hard to 'copy' even when you are 'copying'.  meaning, each piece could be considered a unique piece of art, different woodgrain/color, etc.   I think you have to look at it from a 'is it different enough' in design/quality, that the purchaser would be buying it on those different traits, versus a same for same argument?
  

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  Sean Thackston

  3 years ago

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  I don't think it's so bad Shannon.  I don't know whether or not any of this would be a bad move legally speaking, but as far as perception goes it doesn't seem all that wrong.  

  
  

  Anyone who is taking your class to build a piece of furniture is obviously willing to put forth the effort to make a go of it with or without your guidance.  It's such a small subset of people who have the will and the means to make a copy, so I don't think you're stealing from the original designer's market.  If anything, you're building recognition of a product that otherwise may go unnoticed.

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